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abndogos

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Reply with quote  #16 

He is eating and drinking we no problems, so I dont know if it is the chloramphenicol...I had them run a complete blood panel and all tests were fine. He doesnt seem dehydrated, moist mucus membranes, not tachycardic. Urinalysis was good too. He does seem to be drinking abnd peeing more though.  DId not culture urine, but no blood, no WBC's, so nothing to indicate there is an infection in the urine. I am giving him Manuka honey, stuff called the New Silver Solution, echinachea, probiotics, acidophilus. I am gonna call and get a copy of the C&S to see what antibiotics they tested for, I doubt also about the Zyvox, most labs dont test for it. Thank GOd he still seems happy...he is a Dogo so they are very stoic and its hard to tell if they are truly in pain. I will look into that book. My f/u appt is Nov 30. He'll be on the chlor. 3 weeks this coming MOnday. How much and how long was Camo on the Linezolid? How fast did it work? Oh, I also give garlic pills, I was just reading on the Allimed stuff, that it is allicin, what is in garlic. What was the dose of Allimed that you gave? Its worth a try. My boy is 103 lbs.

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #17 

Becky, Chloramphenicol is fine for a "stop gap" drug to at least keep things in check, but I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to get him on ZYVOX. If you get a copy of the C&S, look at "Vancomycin". If it susceptable to Vancomycin, Zyvox will work. Misty can tell you how to get it from Canada. It's stupid expensive in the United States. It took Misty about 3 weeks to get hers (faster now that she's established with them). PLEASE get the medication before the Chloramphenical can start affecting the red blood cell producing bone marrow.  Let us know how he does. We will definitely be hoping for the best. Misty is a tremendour resource as she's researched the topic more thoroughly than most vets!


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abndogos

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Reply with quote  #18 

Vanco and Linezolid are 2 different classes of drugs, Linezolid is being used in human health for Vanco Resisitant stuff(I am an RN for 13 years). I dont believe either drug were tested on the C&S, I was told the only drug that it was susceptable to was the Chloramphenicol. Seeing more bumps pop up on his neck and back worries me that it is now resistant to that. The original elbow furniculosis that had MRSI seems to be getting better though. I cry about every night over this. After 2 weeks on the chloramphenicol his blood counts are all perfect, though. The Zymox is really helping his scrotum, though. I hate being helpless like this.

Lance

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Reply with quote  #19 
This may not work but it also cannot hurt.  Start by giving him some Colostrum.  Long before antibiotics, Colostrum was used quite regularly and some of these bacterial strains that are resistant to antibiotics have been shown that Colostrum does have an impact on them.  There are even a few dog treats that have it in them.
abndogos

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Reply with quote  #20 

already giving him a supplement with colostrum in it, but thanks

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #21 
Becky, yes they are different classes of drugs: Linezolid is an Oxazoldinone antibiotic that work in binding specific ribosomes in bacteria that blocks function of 70 S inititiation sequence...in lay person talk, it block the replication process of the bacteria so is bacteriostatic. Vancomycin is a glycopeptide antibiotic that inhibits the glycopeptide polymerization through binding to d-alanyl-d alanine portion of the cell wall precursors so it basically weakens the cell wall and it "leaks to death". Though they are different classes of drugs, they both will treat Staph bacterial infections that are Methicillen Resistant. With the exception of Pseudomonas, they they treat the same bugs. Yes, both drugs are available for us in both humans and animals. Linezolid has it's advantage in that levels do not have to be constantly done as is the case with Vancomycin nor does continuous kidney function analysis have to be followed as it does for Vancomycin. I highly recommend you get Linezolid for him. Though not all human drugs can be used in veterinary medicine, this is one that can. Please listen to me on this one. The Zyvox will work, but you need to get it before the RBCs start dropping from the Chloramphenicol.

PS. I'm a clinical pharmacist in large regional hosptial where we do LOTS of infectious disease medicine, and though I realize that not all circumstances can be translated between human and animal, most bacteria react the same whether  it is human or animal. The main thing you worry about in animals versus humans is whether animals have the same enzymes availabe to break down drugs and dispose of them (either renally or hepatically).  

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Misty

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Reply with quote  #22 

Believe me, I've been through it all with Camo.  The chloramphenicol did get rid of the MRSP but it was only a short fix for Camo.  He had 2 rounds of it when we had to resort to culturing him for Zyvox.

 

To get Camo well, my vet worked with a vet pharmacologist to come up with the dosage for him.  He weighed in at about 200lbs before he got sick.  His dosage was 900mg x 2 daily. He did two rounds of this to clear up the MRSP, and I think they were both about 2 weeks long.  The infectious disease vet that we consulted with said 2 weeks past resolution, but by that time Camo's stomache was totally trashed from the chloramphenicol, and he just couldn't take any more meds and he was having a hard time keeping anything down.


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
abndogos

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Reply with quote  #23 

Tthanks everyone for the insight and help. Misty, where was his infection? Toro's is a generalized folliculitis/deep pyoderma. Has anyone had the aplastic anemia with their dogs on chloramphenicol? The vets told me it is rare to happen in dogs, but in humans it was common hence why it is no longer on the market for human use. Zyvox has its risks also, but I just want to get Toro cured so he doesnt have to be separated from my other dogs. I have 2 puppies, one a dogo that is 13 weeks(which was to be his future girlfriend) and a Dutch SHepherd that is 5 months old, so obviously I have to be very careful with infection control.

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #24 
Looks like Misty is offline now, but I think I can answer. He had what appeared to be pyoderma that began on his face. It eventually spread to many parts of his body and did not clear up with the typical Cephalexin (that normally works for staph that is not Methicillin resistant). That's when they cultured it the first time. They began the Chloramphenical treatment. They went through two treatments (if I remember correctly, but he got really sick from the drug) and so they opted to go to the Linezolid. She said the pyoderma lumps had a very specific "metal smell" that were clearly different than normal "hot spots".

I've only known of Camo on Chloramphenicol and I don't believe he developed aplastic anemia. His issue with it was that it caused severe G.I. disturbances. He has had not issues with the Zyvox, but you do have to watch for CNS disturbances and  Platelet drop with it.

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abndogos

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Reply with quote  #25 

Thats it, thrombocytopenia, couldnt remember what side effect it was I was thinging of. He isnt having any issues with the chloramphenicol(unless that is what is causing him to seem like he has dysuria, either that or it was the chlorhexadine wash and spray that caused the excoriation to his scrotum that  is making it painful to urinate). I dont know if I am being impatient and expecting miraculous results too fast with the chloramphenicol, he is better in some ways and worse in others, he has been on it 20 days. I'm not due to go back to the derm vet until Nov 30, should I call and try to get in Monday? Oh, so he has had this infection would say since July, so it definately has a good hold on him.

 

Maureen

Teresa

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Camo was also having trouble urinating due to the Chloremphenacal too. I did have an ultrasound done and a secondary cystinuria test done too. There were no stones, and his prostate wasn't enlarged.  The vet thought it was because the Choremphenacal causes severe anarexia and Camo wasn't getting enough fluids which caused the problem.  Once he was off the Chloremphenacal he stopped having urination issues.


They never really knew why Camo was having trouble peeing, but if I remember correctly, they even had to catherize him one time because he was having so much trouble. Hopefully, Misty will drop back in tomorrow.

My personal opinion is to talk to the vet about Linezolid, and again, get with Misty to find out how she got her supply. It cost $2500 in the US, but she was able to get it for 1/10 of that from Canada. Also, her vet gave her the dosing for dogs (it's higher in dogs than humans).

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abndogos

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Reply with quote  #27 

Yep same with Toro, they catheterized him a few days ago and he had like 800 mls in his bladder! I thought he had a blockage the way he was acting. DId xrays and ultrasound and all was fine, no stones or enlarged prostate.

Misty

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Reply with quote  #28 

Well Teresa covered it pretty closely.  I don't remember the dosage on the chloramphenicol, but it's been a while.  Camo did his first round of about 2 or 3 weeks.  The vet wanted to do 2 weeks past resolution, but Camo wasn't keeping much of anything down no matter what I did. He was only off the chloramphenicol for about 2 weeks when the MRSP start up for the 2nd time.  During the worst point in time Camo had deep pyodermas on his face, head, neck, back, and sides.  He didn't have any on his belly, chest, legs or tail.

 

The vet actually had to catheterize Camo twice during the treatment, but no stones were found and no enlarge prostate, and yes the assumption was that his urination issues were do to the chloramphenicol because he was so dehydrated.  However, he's had no problems since he went off that med, so that makes sense.

 

Camo was actually symptom free for a few months when it came back, but we had him re cultured during the 2nd occurrence so we knew the Zyvox would work.  So when it came back on the 3rd occurrence we went straight for the Zyvox because we knew the side affects would be much less than the chloramphenicol. Plus I honestly felt if I had to put him back on the chloramphenicol, it would kill him.  He was so week towards the end of his second treatment, that he could barely stand, I was having to force feed him little bits of food, give him tons of anti-nausea meds, then literally had to pry his mouth open to give him the chloramphenicol. Thankfully his 3rd occurrence was much more limited, I think he just had some pyodermas on his face and neck, which is mild compared to the prior times.

 

Now I never had to keep Camo away from my other two dogs.  I have Bella our other mastiff, and she was and is perfectly healthy and never contracted anything from Camo.  Our other dog was our old greyhound Cruiser, I really thought that if one of the other dogs would contract it, it would be him because he was 10 years old when Camo got sick, but Cruiser never did contract it.

 

I did bath Camo daily in a chlorhexidine shampoo when it was at it's worse.  This was to soak off the scabs, and get rid of as much of the puss and gunk that was held up within the pyoderma's.


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
Misty

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Reply with quote  #29 

Here's where I purchased the Zyvox from.  The trick is to create an account for yourself, then add your dog on your account, yes there is a place for that.  Then put in an order, and keep track of your account number.  Have your vet fax over a script which contains your account number and it must specify allows generics.  There isn't a generic in the US, but in Canada there is a generic and it's call Lineospan.

 

 

http://www.northwestpharmacy.com/


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
Misty

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Reply with quote  #30 

Oh I missed your question about the garlic pills.  From the reading I've gone through, the Allimed is actual the only one that has sustainable Allicin in it, which is what kills MRSA.  The rest of the garlic products have not been able to capture it.  It's actually the product they're using over in the UK in some hospitals with MRSA patients and they're having good success. 


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
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