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Misty

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Reply with quote  #1 

I've learned how amazing the immune system is, and the effects of tampering with it. I'm sure since nationals most who went know that Camo was seriously ill last year, but most don't know it was all due to the Canine Influenza vaccination. Camo was prone to hot spots in the summer due to MO's nasty humid weather. However in February of 2010 he received the canine influenza vaccine because it was mandated by the local training kennel where we take classes. I had already been tittering Camo, and honestly I wasn't happy about the change, but like an idiot I went ahead and got Camo the 2 shots. The first one was in mid-February, and not even 2 weeks later he broke out with a hot spot which seemed very strange being it was  late winter. About 3 weeks later he received the 2nd shot, and that's when all hell broke loose. Within a matter of 2 or 3 days he went from having a hot spot on just one cheek, to having crusty stinky bumps on both cheeks, on his neck and starting on his back.

 

After the first set of meds of cephalexin, which did nothing, I went to the vet armed with Dr. Robin Smith's protocol for testing, and we took her previously defined direction on skin issues. Thereafter we tested for ringworm, parasites; we did skin scrapings, cultures and thyroid testing. The first culture came back as pseudomonas, but there was also underlying staph, which was resistant to most antibiotics, so they had to continue the culture to find out what it was and how to treat it. Little did I know we were in for the ride of our lives to get this mess cleared up. The culture came back with the results of MRSP, to all that don’t know, that’s methicillin resistant staphylococcus pseudintermedius. It is a hightly resistant form of staph generally seen in other animals, not humans, and in Camo's case he was resistant to all but 3 medications.

 

Now I take full blame for letting this happen to my boy.  Yes I was tittering him but I didn’t think about the repercussions of giving a vaccine that had been rushed to the market with minimal testing, and just followed others blindly, when I should have been an advicate for my boy.  There wasn’t even one confirmed case of canine influenza in the state at the time the training facility started mandating the vaccine.  In addition to this Camo’s immune system was already under a lot of stress to start, he was doing weekly visits as a therapy dog, we were training weekly at the local facility for rally, and he was showing in conformation.  He was overly exposed to every germ out there, so it’s no wonder this happened to him.

 

After trying Chloremphenacol and baytril, the pseudomonas went away, but the MRSP was still coming back.  During this mess Camo lost 20 to 25lbs, and he started having trouble urinating because he wasn’t getting enough fluids. Chloremphenacol was the lessor of the evils but the side effects were not pretty.  The meds caused severe nausea and vomiting, and he was so weak he could hardly stand. At his worst, he had staph covering 60% of his body which was on his head, neck, back and shoulders and it took putting Camo on Zyvox to get rid of the MRSP. Teresa can attest to the pricing of this drug, for a 10 day supply for Camo, which equal a 15 days day supply to humans, it would have cost $2400+ for the meds.  Thankfully I found I could get the meds through Canada for about $175, so that’s what I did; however, it took 2-3 weeks to get the meds, so it was a waiting game while the meds showed up.  He had to have 2 rounds of meds to clear his system, but he is now a very happy and healthy boy today.  However with putting him on such harsh antibiotics, we were also killing off the good germs too, so this is why I have a homeopathic vet in addition to an everyday vet.  I worked closely with the homeopathic vet to rebalance Camo’s immune system so hopefully we can avoid this mess ever again.

 

This explains why I’m so anti-vaccine and all about doing things naturally.  I know how much we can screw up these wonderful babies, and I don’t take their health for granted.  I do my best to keep Camo healthy, but I’ll always have that horrid experience in the back of my mind wondering if it would come back. I treat him with supplements to support his immune system because who knows what permanent damage those shots may have done.

 

Let me make it perfectly clear here, I have previously disclosed this to some people, and Teresa knew full well the extent of Camo’s illness before we bred him to Sandy and Sahara.  I also had my vets consult with an immunologist, and infectious disease specialist before we decided to breed Camo to her girls.  We were told that his MRSP was localized to his skin, and as long as he wasn’t having a break out on his private area, which he’s never had, that he was not capable of transmitting it, plus his skin had already cleared up by then.  In addition, we also had his semen cultured, which came back clear, just to make sure it wasn’t transmittable. I would also disclose this to anyone else that was serious about using him as a stud dog; however, I don’t think it’s really necessary because his breeder was telling people about it at nationals this year, though she didn’t have the full story.



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EyotaMastiffs

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Reply with quote  #2 
Wow! That just sucks, Misty! All of it!

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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #3 
I felt rather strongly that this subject deserved attention. MRSP is becoming a growing problem (as is MRSA in humans) and it's absolutely VITAL that we know what we are dealing with. Cultures are the only way to KNOW you have that it's a staph infection that will not respond to normal antibiotic therapy.

Misty did what she had to do to save Camo. She started him on Chloramphenicol. It's a NASTY drug that can cause severe (and sometime irreversible) bone marrow suppression. The red blood cells have to be monitored while the dog is on the drug and if the RBCs start dropping, the dog MUST be removed from the drug asap. Unfortunately, due to the ridiculous drug laws in the United States (that protect big drug companies), the ONLY drug that will kill MRSA or MRSP that is NOT intravenous is Linezolid (Zyvox, brand name) is stupid expensive in the US. In the United States, the average cost is over $2500 for a standard course of treatment. When Bush was in power, he closed the loopholes for humans to get drugs from Canada, but fortunately, that does not apply to animals. Misty was able to get the Linezolid from Canada for around $175!! Now, the down side was that it takes quite a bit of time to get the drugs (what Misty, about 2-3 weeks?) so Camo had to be on the Chloramphenacol until the Linezolid was available. Fortunately, he did not have too much trouble on the Chloramphenacol, but nonetheless, we were BOTH stressing about him getting off of that drug as soon as possible. If any of you run into this issue (and it IS becoming more prevalent anywhere dogs frequent and in the "therapy dog" arena...MRSA can infect dogs), contact Misty for her resource and get your furkid on the right drug FAST. The Zymox for horses (available at vet supply houses) is also effective against MRSA/MRSP topically but won't treat a large area and will only contain the staph in one area. The oral Linezolid is necessary. Also, MRSA and MRSP can cross species jump and can go from human to dog and dog to human, so it's serious business.
Camo has been well for quite some time now, but you know how rumors are! To be on the safe side, we did culture his semen before breeding him and it was fine, but we had to be sure. I saw Camo at the specialty this year and he looks AWESOME, and I do mean AWESOME!!! Despite the rumors to the contrary, Camo was disease free and not contagious. sigh...

Anyway, please share this information with anyone whose dogs have "hot spots" that never will heal. They may be worse than you normal hot spots. 

*forgive my little editorial comments about politics and the big drug company comments; just happens to be another pet peeve of mine...

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Misty

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Reply with quote  #4 
I do want to follow up with some comments for the people who would bash me for breeding Camo, or even showing him again after this happened.  I've done what I feel is right with the guidance of multiple vets, including a large symposium of vets that reviewed Camo's case regarding MRSP.  I've been open and honest to all parties, and haven't buried any bones.  Breeders complain that they don't know the whole story about the stud dog and the same has been said about the bitch.  I've told Camo's story because it's important, I haven't hid or kept this information to myself. I've put it out there to help others, and get the word out about just how serious over vaccination is and regarding a super bug issue that's on the rise. 

Oh MRSP is actually MRSI, it's just recently been renamed.  It is possible for humans to contract it, but it's very uncommon for that to happen.  Dave and I actually had ourselves checked to see if we were carriers and we tested clear.

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Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
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Reply with quote  #5 
I wanted to share with everybody my own experience with MRSI (or MRSP as it's now being called).

Kizzy got a small cut on the pad of her right front foot about the end of January 2010.  It didn't start out as a big cut, maybe 1/2 in. long and half that deep.  Happens all the time.  They limp for a couple days, you put neosporin, or some other antibiotic gel/spray on it till it closes up and you're done.  NOT!

Over a year, 3 different vets, $8500.00 in vet bills, six surgeries (7 if you include her spay), two toe amputations, and more different medications than I can even begin to list - her foot finally healed.

To say her foot became infected would be putting it mildly.  But that's how it started.  Why?  I will never know.  It could be that because she had just been in heat, possibly her immune system was stressed, or depressed, just enough from that, for the bacteria to get a good start.

After the first two rounds of antibiotics - Cephalexin and Cipro, we did the first culture and sensitivity tests.  I believe that's the one that came back as pseudomonas and several different strains of staph.

All told she had 4 different surgeries for cultures and sensitivity tests.  She cultured out so many different types and strains of bacteria, I can't even begin to remember them all.  But among them was MRSI (MRSP).

At one point, Kizzy was on injectable Naxcel for over 7 weeks.  Another time, she was on Baytril for 14 weeks.  We tried combinations of antibiotics - Cephalexin, Cipro, Naxcel, Baytril, DiTrim, Metronidazole - using as many as 3 different ones together.

We tried so many different topical ointments, sprays, creams, powders, and gels.  I was constantly ordering something new I found online.

We did twice daily foot soaks using different medications in the water.  I bought a human foot spa for her and she LOVED her daily spa treatments.  She would lay down, put her foot in the spa, and sleep contentedly.

It even got to the point where I suggested using magot therapy.  But because of the way the bacteria was eating away between her toes, there would be no way to get a tight seal that is required to use magots.

During this entire time, Kizzy was on and off (mostly on) Prednisone for swelling and itching.  She was getting as much as 60 mgs. twice daily which is a lot of prednisone.  But that was the only way to keep the swelling from going all the way up her leg.

During each round of new antibiotics and prednisone, we would see improvement and what appeared to be healing and normal granulation.  But as the antibiotic continued, the foot would go back to swelling, and split open again.  I personally think that each time, the MRSI (MRSP) would simply become resistant to whatever drug we were using.

Kizzy was tested for every systemic disease possible - thyroid conditions, diabetes, immune deficiencies - you name it and she was tested for it.  The same for bacteria and fungal sources.  She was even allergy tested, and aside from a few minor seasonal allergies, even that was negative.  The ONLY place that had a problem was her foot!!!  The rest of her body was completely healthy.  There was NO explanation for this "flesh eating" bacteria!

Finally, it was decided the only way to eradicate the infection was to cut it out.  Unfortunately, since is was on both sides of her toe, cutting out the infection would also require removing the entire toe.  So on 5 October, she had her toe amputated.

She was splinted, wrapped, and given more antibiotics.  Again, we got good healing at first.  Then, just as we were beginning to think we had beat it, the incision split open and it all started over again.

In the meantime, from being on prednisone for so long at such high doses, she started having problems with her heat cycles, or lack of cycles.  She would spot for a day or two and stop.  Then a week later start again.  This happend several times and we decided she needed to be spayed before she pyo'd and we didn't want to have to deal with THAT too!  She was spayed on 18 January 2011 and it was then that our local vet saw that her foot had split once again.

He consulted with the surgeon who'd amputated the toe and they came to the conclusion that they had not gotten totally clean edges on the first amputation and she needed to have the second toe amputated as soon as possible before the bacteria spread to the outside toe.

On 28 January 2011, almost a year to the day that she first cut her paw, Kizzy had her second middle toe removed.  It took what seemed like forever for it to finally heal.  But thankfully, the second surgery did get clean edges and removed ALL of the bacteria.

Her foot is healed.  We keep a very close eye on her foot, and we're VERY paranoid if one of the other dogs gets a cut on their foot or paw, but for now Kizzy is doing quite well.

Yes, she's missing 2 toes and she will always have a limp.  She will never be shown again, although she is a beautiful Callisto baby that could have finished easily.  She will never be bred.  BUT, she is alive and she is very much loved.

And if you ever get to meet her, she will be sure to show you her "booboo" and look at you with those beautiful eyes of hers; and she will expect you to feel sorry for her and the trials she has had to endure!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Terri Perkins
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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #6 

These stories are so important for the Mastiff community to share! It give others options in the same circumstances. I know I've fought the foot infection issues, but none of mine have grown out MRSP. That is a BAD one. Hopefully, both Kizzy and Camo are healed and others may learn from your experiences.


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Misty

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Reply with quote  #7 
Terri,

I'm so glad Kizzy has recovered from this, it's so scary.  I only hope I get to see her one day, boo-boo and all.



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UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
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Teresa

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Reply with quote  #8 

bump


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Reply with quote  #9 
Bump! I don't know if MRSA(I) can go bloodborn but for topical use I recommend Vetericyn. It kills MRSA and is 100% non toxic.
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Kristie in Texas

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Misty

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Reply with quote  #10 

I have come across something very similar which does kill MRSA/MRSP topically, it's Zymox by Petking, and it's also great for yeast, ringworm, all those fun things.  The otic of it is wonderful for yeasty ears, which my Bella gets a lot during the humid summers here.

http://www.petkingbrands.com/


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UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
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Reply with quote  #11 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtpoor
Bump! I don't know if MRSA(I) can go bloodborn but for topical use I recommend Vetericyn. It kills MRSA and is 100% non toxic.

Kristie,
Vetericyn was one of the "new" things out on the market that we tried on Kizzy's foot.  It didn't work either.   One of the problems with MRSP is it's ability to become resistant to antibiotics very quickly.

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Misty

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Reply with quote  #12 

That's why I like the Zymox by Petking, there is NO antibiotics in it.  It's all natural, and as such the body can't become resistant to it. 


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
Misty

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Reply with quote  #13 
Dr. Ella,

No need to PM, I should have put this on one of my prior posts anyway.  I got Camo's meds through.

http://www.northwestpharmacy.com/

He was on the generic version of Linezolid also called Zyvox here in the US, and the generic variety is named Lynospan. I will tell you, I actually keep a 2 week supply in store just because I'm so parinoid now, and because it did take a bit longer to get the initial shipment.  The meds actually shipped from Germany, so it sat in customes for a while.

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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
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Reply with quote  #14 

Hello all, I am the only of a 6 year old male Dogo Argentino who was diagnosed with folliculitis MRSI 3 weeks ago and was put on chloramphenicol. That was the only antibiotic that it was not resistant to. He seems to be breaking out more. The daily baths of chlorhexadine caused him so much discomfort to his genitals I had to stop it, he could barely pee to where I took him to the EVet thinking he had a blockage. His scrotum had a little MRSI on it, but after using the chlorhexadine spray, they became raw and his coat fell out from the spray. I am using Zymox now. I am beside myself with this infection. I am scared that the chloramphenicol isnt working and I dont know where to go from here. I knew he had contracted an infection from a training kennel a few months back ,but the vet thought it was allergies and put him on steriods instead for over 2 months, which really sent the infection running rampant. He has had some minor issues with allergies and folliculitis in the past, but after antibiotics they always resolved. We moved to Texas from NY and within a month it all started. I am seeing a derm vet right now. I dont know what to do or where to go from here. I dont want to have to put him to sleep in the future if we cant get this infection under control. He has sores that are rupturing between his toes now also. My heart is breaking with all this. Please help!!!

Misty

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Reply with quote  #15 

Ok was he cultured specifically for Zyvox (Linezolid)?  When Camo got sick, we had to do a 2nd culture because most labs don't usually culture for it because it's a last ditch drug.  If your boy hasn't, then get him to the vet ASAP and demand it! Camo was also having trouble urinating due to the Chloremphenacal too. I did have an ultrasound done and a secondary cystinuria test done too. There were no stones, and his prostate wasn't enlarged.  The vet thought it was because the Choremphenacal causes severe anarexia and Camo wasn't getting enough fluids which caused the problem.  Once he was off the Chloremphenacal he stopped having urination issues.

 

Next I'm going to share a little secret with you that I really do believe helped Camo get better.  I purchased a book called MRSA Secets Revealed and it had some great homeopathic ideas. The one that really seemed to help with his recovery was Allimed.  It's not cheap by any means but it does help. 

 

http://optimalhealthusa.com/Allimed.html

 

Feel free to PM, and I'll help if I can.

 

Misty

 


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Slave to Mastiffs:
UKC CH, Int. CH, BGCH, Lazy D's Southern Mossy Oak, CD, RN, CGCA, TDI, TT, WDX "Camo"
Magical Autumn Oaks Blazing Mirage of Oasis, CGC "Mia"
Autumn Oaks To Infinity And Beyond "Buzz"
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